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Innocent until proven guilty.... Yea right


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I know, I know this will never apply to any of you or your kids or loved one or family but one day they may get nicked and have there phones interrogated and all it's data taken off, EVEN if no charges are bought, I wonder how many images will find there way onto the web.

 

I hate this country more and more and yes if i had the money i would moved today.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18102793

 

All1

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Where do you wanna go? you think our country is bad eh lol go and live in Eastern Europe pal, you would live it there Ukraine, Estonia, Russia, Belarus, but then again you could always try Brazil it's

What can't I see Sparks? What is it that just you see that the rest of us don't?   Are we all idiots that amble along aimlessly without a clue and all the while everything is falling down around us.

You do think we are idiots.

No one is 'innocent' in the UK police state, and hasn't been for some time...

 

Not only is the suspects data held here, but data on everyone you've contacted too...What about their 'innocence'?

 

And no doubt the c*nts will at some point plant evidence on phones, just as they plant evidence in other ways at present!

 

Or remove incriminating evidence of their own misdemeaners...!

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/2012/mar/30/police-officer-recording-black-man

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I know, I know this will never apply to any of you or your kids or loved one or family but one day they may get nicked and have there phones interrogated and all it's data taken off, EVEN if no charges are bought, I wonder how many images will find there way onto the web.

 

I hate this country more and more and yes if i had the money i would moved today.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...nology-18102793

 

All1

 

Where do you wanna go? you think our country is bad eh lol go and live in Eastern Europe pal, you would live it there Ukraine, Estonia, Russia, Belarus, but then again you could always try Brazil it's quite safe there too but then again I suppose there is always Syria, Lebanon or even Isreal, the police in these places are pretty tolerant.

 

So bad here :Angry_32: I lived in a few of these places albeit for short periods and let me tell you, if you think things are bad here and we live in a police state try living in one of these places and believe me you will soon want to come home. Don't know were born here!

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Isn't it amazing how some people can't see that we are getting as bad as the places they compare us with...

 

We just do a more 'civilised' police state here in the UK, in the same way as we do more 'civilised' corruption... :Winky:

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What can't I see Sparks? What is it that just you see that the rest of us don't?

 

Are we all idiots that amble along aimlessly without a clue and all the while everything is falling down around us.

 

I say this because you and your sidekick constantly deride the country that has fed and nurtured you.

Has kept you safe and allowed you freedom to say and do what you like.

 

There will always be enequities, it's the human condition.

 

So what is it Sparks. Enlighten us.

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What can't you see Rother? Things right in front of your nose apparently!

 

And as ever, you confuse 'Country' with those that 'rule' it!

 

I seem to recall a certain objectionable (but legal) political party's member list being publicised. Was that good?

 

What if a member of an equally objectionable (but legal) organisation was stopped and all their contacts stored forever, and innocent people referred back to at any time in the future just because they were on a phone's database? That smacks of a tactic the Stasi would be proud of to me, but maybe that's ok with you?

 

I could remind you that a certain group of people were rounded up on the say so of an IBM database, but then I'm sure you'll tell me 'it couldn't happen here' wouldn't you!

 

Fed and nurtured?...Exploited as far as possible would be the phrase I'd use!

 

As for 'keeping me safe', how come we are now the target of terrorists who didn't threaten us before our illegal wars? How come we are in danger of sliding into an abyss due to our governing system having failed to protect the interests of the vast majority of it's population?

 

And as for being able to say and do what I like, are you having a laugh?

 

You obviously haven't heard of section 5 of the public order act...!

 

Of course there will always be 'inequities', but do you wish to condone the silencing of those who point them out through ignorance of the actual situation?

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I say this because you and your sidekick
Promotion, one up from ar*e licker i guess.

 

 

Where do you wanna go?
Don't know to be honest, so long as it's not too hot but to be honest given i don't have the funds not much point in giving it serious thought is there?

 

you think our country is bad
Yea

 

go and live in Eastern Europe pal, you would live it there Ukraine, Estonia, Russia, Belarus, but then again you could always try Brazil it's quite safe there too but then again I suppose there is always Syria, Lebanon or even Isreal, the police in these places are pretty tolerant.
Excuse me did I mention any of these places? Don't bother i'll answer it for you ....... No :Smiler:
So bad here :Angry_32: I lived in a few of these places albeit for short periods and let me tell you, if you think things are bad here and we live in a police state try living in one of these places and believe me you will soon want to come home. Don't know were born here!
You need anger managegment classes m8, please try to read my post correctly before going off into some other field, did i mention police state? Again i'll answer that for you... No.

 

What i'm getting at is the slow erosion of civil liberties in this country many used agao i remember the right to silence, if you keep quiet now people can use that against you, the most watched county in the west, maybe world but i'm not 100% to be honest, answer me this in the last 20 years do you think our freedoms and civil rights have got stronger? I fht enaswer is yes can you please expand on your thoughts and guys just because you don't agree with me that's fine but please don't hurl personal abuse it's so childish.

 

Rother, I presume your still a member of the BNP, and although i don't agree with them much how long do you think it will be before that party is banned and it beomes illegal here given what is happening in Europe right now, you watch current lot jump on band wagon and nip them (BNP) in the bud before it's too late.

 

I don't think this coutry is a police state yet and doubt it will be when compared to likes of Russia etc however I do feel that our rights our being taken away, look at the web ISP's told to ban access to pirate bay, rightly so some may say, ban kiddie porn site (nobody will disagree with that) but now were looking at an opt in service for adult porn, so anyone who wants adult porn has to flag themselves up as into porn (another nice database for govt to flog or use against you), woman in local area gets raped everyone on opt in database gets a visit, ALL communications data to be held, why i've done nothing wrong, just my 2p's worth, how long before black box is "made" to be in car of everybody not just your insurance risks, why am i not allowed to drive on the roads i pay for without the Govt needing to know what i have been doing, what next CCTV in your living room to make sure you don't abuse your kids, or one in the bedroom to make sure you don't do anything illegal, can you see where the last 20 years has gone and "if" it carries on what the country will be like in 20-40 years time.

 

 

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Unlike my 'sidekick', I believe we ARE living in a police state...

 

But as I have said before it is a 'civilised' one, so that people don't realise until they get caught up with the police - and then it dawns on them far too late!

 

How do you insult someone legally?

 

Personally I would have liked to insult the Queen on the day she is entertaining dictators, but was stopped from doing so... :Vault:

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Excuse me did I mention any of these places? Don't bother i'll answer it for you ....... No :Smiler:

No you did not mention these places but I did! merely to point out that there are a lot more countries you could live in that are a lot worse than living in the UK

 

You need anger managegment classes m8, please try to read my post correctly before going off into some other field, did i mention police state? Again i'll answer that for you... No.

 

What i'm getting at is the slow erosion of civil liberties in this country many used agao i remember the right to silence, if you keep quiet now people can use that against you, the most watched county in the west, maybe world but i'm not 100% to be honest, answer me this in the last 20 years do you think our freedoms and civil rights have got stronger? I fht enaswer is yes can you please expand on your thoughts and guys just because you don't agree with me that's fine but please don't hurl personal abuse it's so childish.

 

Please show me where I hurl personal abuse?

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No you did not mention these places but I did! merely to point out that there are a lot more countries you could live in that are a lot worse than living in the UK
Agreed but on the other foot I guess there are much better places to live then the uk, my main point here is the slow erosion of civil liberties we are all facing, and there is no sign of it ending.

 

 

Please show me where I hurl personal abuse?

Sorry i must have lumped you in the same group as Rother, he does tend to hurl abuse at folks just because you don't agree with him.

 

Don't start please Rother.

 

 

All1

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Agreed but on the other foot I guess there are much better places to live then the uk, my main point here is the slow erosion of civil liberties we are all facing, and there is no sign of it ending.

 

I agree to a degree but unfortunately with all the terrorism and nutters in the world some of these measures are needed. I hate having to to to the airport 2 hours before my flights and go through all the security every time, I can't take liquids anymore unless I have a special little bag etc etc but although all of this is a pain in the arse I wold rather all of this than die wth a lot of other people prematurely. I do not know what the answer is my friend, but the governments of this world have to make these unpopular and sometimes unfair decisions and it's always the innocent people it effects. The problem is some governments use it as a good excuse to add in a few extra's of their own. Trouble is if something goes wrong we automatically blame them or say why was this not done or the classic line is 'we all have to learn lessons so this never happens again' so as I say no easy answer to a lot of this but i do not believe it's a bad as some members suggest DAILY.

To be honest the only reason I would want to move from the UK is would be because of the rubbish weather we always have lol but on saying that I do think we are a soft touch!! that's why so many people want to come here, which is ironic :Winky:

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I agree to a degree but unfortunately with all the terrorism and nutters in the world some of these measures are needed.

Hook , line and sinker!!

 

What has terrorism got to do with taking the mobile phone data off any CRIME suspect?

 

The reason I say that is the example of section 44 stops...

 

A specific terrorism measure, and 'necessary' you may say?

 

No terror arrests in 100,000 police counter-terror searches, figures show

 

More than 100,000 people were stopped and searched by police under counter-terrorism powers last year but none of them were arrested for terrorism-related offences, according to Home Office figures published today.

The statistics show that 504 people out of the 101,248 searches were arrested for any offence – an arrest rate of 0.5%, compared with an average 10% arrest rate for street searches under normal police powers.

 

And the result of that (and section 60 stops) was one of the contributory causes for the actions of some during the riots because they perceived (quite rightly)they had been picked upon!

 

So did that 'anti terrorism' measure keep people safe? How many died as a result of the riots?

 

the governments of this world have to make these unpopular and sometimes unfair decisions and it's always the innocent people it effects. The problem is some governments use it as a good excuse to add in a few extra's of their own. Trouble is if something goes wrong we automatically blame them or say why was this not done or the classic line is 'we all have to learn lessons so this never happens again' so as I say no easy answer to a lot of this but i do not believe it's a bad as some members suggest DAILY.

 

You are right that it's innocent people that it affects, but the governments don't actually have to do these things. What they do have to do is change their policies elsewhere! You might not have an answer, but I have a few ideas as to where it's gone wrong ( :Winky: ) and what has led us to this police state we are in...!!

 

You might not think it is that bad, but I'll promise you this...

 

If and when you become a victim of this, or a myriad of other draconian measures, you'll change your tune!

 

Do you ever campaign against anything?...Because that is what this measure is for - to find out about protests and particiants and then prevent them!...

 

And it's no coincidence that this (and a whole raft of other measures) have been introduced in Olympic year!

 

Because people think it's 'necessary' to 'keep us safe', but don't think of the consequences!

 

No one really wants to think they are living in a police state, but unfortunately by the time the majority wake up to the fact it's too late!!

 

ps:

Q. how many have died from terrorism in the UK in the last decade?...

A. 56

 

Q. how many have died on uk roads in the last decade

A. approx 28,000

 

If the government really wanted to 'keep people safe' statistically, they'd make the 'unpopular' decision to ban cars!

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Hook , line and sinker!!

 

What has terrorism got to do with taking the mobile phone data off any CRIME suspect?

 

I cannot answer this question because I do not know the answer but common sense suggests it may help the police with their lines of inquiry or at least answer some questions for them.

 

 

So did that 'anti terrorism' measure keep people safe? How many died as a result of the riots?

 

No but again I think the police had a difficult job, personally I think they should of dealt with the riots a lot harder than what they did, problem is Mr Sparks they are facing people like you, 'just waiting to film them and trip them up eh' they can't win!

 

 

You are right that it's innocent people that it affects, but the governments don't actually have to do these things. What they do have to do is change their policies elsewhere! You might not have an answer, but I have a few ideas as to where it's gone wrong ( :Winky: ) and what has led us to this police state we are in...!!

 

You might not think it is that bad, but I'll promise you this...

 

If and when you become a victim of this, or a myriad of other draconian measures, you'll change your tune!

 

Do you ever campaign against anything?...Because that is what this measure is for - to find out about protests and particiants and then prevent them!...

 

No because I work and quite frankly do not have the time, to be honest I think people like yourself are not happy unless they are protesting about something, can't believe how much over the years you have moaned and protested about and all of these times it's because you have been directly affected yes?

 

ps:

Q. how many have died from terrorism in the UK in the last decade?...

A. 56

 

This is a World problem and not limited to the UK. They have World leaders at the G8 in the Us discussing measures against all sorts of crimes and terrorism etc right now (Bet you wish you could be there eh?)

 

Lets have a look a the news about terrorism just today so far what do we have....Mmm

 

1.Streets in Banff evacuated as bomb squad called in

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-18123082

 

2. Bomb explosion at school in Brindisi, Italy

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18128170

 

and this is only today and it's only 10.15am

 

Now add these to events discussed this week

 

3. Cheltenham man charged with making explosive

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-18112129

 

4. Bogota residents on deadly bomb blast which killed two

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-18110181

 

5.Explosion footage shown at trial of Nasserdine Menni

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-18006379

 

To be honest I do not have the time to continue adding these news items but I am sure there are lot more. My point is pretty obvious I think, the world is full of extremists and nutters so are we supposed to sit back and do nothing?

 

There is a good debate going on in Norway

 

Crime and punishment, Norwegian style

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18121914

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I agree to a degree but unfortunately with all the terrorism and nutters in the world some of these measures are needed. I hate having to to to the airport 2 hours before my flights and go through all the security every time, I can't take liquids anymore unless I have a special little bag etc etc but although all of this is a pain in the arse I wold rather all of this than die wth a lot of other people prematurely. I do not know what the answer is my friend, but the governments of this world have to make these unpopular and sometimes unfair decisions and it's always the innocent people it effects. The problem is some governments use it as a good excuse to add in a few extra's of their own. Trouble is if something goes wrong we automatically blame them or say why was this not done or the classic line is 'we all have to learn lessons so this never happens again' so as I say no easy answer to a lot of this but i do not believe it's a bad as some members suggest DAILY.

To be honest the only reason I would want to move from the UK is would be because of the rubbish weather we always have lol but on saying that I do think we are a soft touch!! that's why so many people want to come here, which is ironic :Winky:

Fully agree, some people have nothing better to do than protest, I could not afford that luxury :cha-ching:

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I would suggest that you can't afford not to protest against things that will affect your life for the worse...

 

Of course some people are happy for others to do it for them, and some are just sheep!

 

And going by the last two posts it seems that the Government has done a pretty good mind job on some of those sheep!!

 

So am I correct in assuming that you two believe the suffragettes were terrorists, and that women should never have got the vote?

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This is a World problem and not limited to the UK. They have World leaders at the G8 in the Us discussing measures against all sorts of crimes and terrorism etc right now (Bet you wish you could be there eh?)

 

Lets have a look a the news about terrorism just today so far what do we have....Mmm

 

The issue was about Police actions in this country, but Hey ho...

 

Maybe we should look at these events you list...

 

1.Streets in Banff evacuated as bomb squad called in

http://www.bbc.co.uk...etland-18123082

 

BBC Scotland understands it is not a terrorism related incident

 

2. Bomb explosion at school in Brindisi, Italy

http://www.bbc.co.uk...europe-18128170

 

Although no-one has said they planted the device, the city's mayor has blamed local mafia.

 

A man has been charged with making an explosive substance for an unlawful purpose

Again, no mention of terrorism...

 

4. Bogota residents on deadly bomb blast which killed two

http://www.bbc.co.uk...merica-18110181

 

Bogota Police Commander Gen Luis Eduardo Martinez blamed Colombia's largest rebel group, the Farc, for the attack.

Civil war issue...freedom fighters or guerillas?

 

So there you go...

 

4 out of 5 not terrorist actions, and the last is just a trial report of an event a couple of years ago...

 

C- for you I'm afraid Badlad.... :Winky:

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I would suggest that you can't afford not to protest against things that will affect your life for the worse...

 

Of course some people are happy for others to do it for them, and some are just sheep!

 

And going by the last two posts it seems that the Government has done a pretty good mind job on some of those sheep!!

 

So am I correct in assuming that you two believe the suffragettes were terrorists, and that women should never have got the vote?

Now who is hurling abuse because someone does not agree with them 'Sheep' and I never asked anyone to protest for me....as for Suffragettes I do not remember them ever being suicide bombers or terrorists of any sort, what are you on about? of course they should have the right to vote and they protested peacefully

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as for Suffragettes I do not remember them ever being suicide bombers or terrorists of any sort, what are you on about? of course they should have the right to vote and they protested peacefully

Oh dear...

 

A quick history lesson required methinks!

 

Linky Linky

A century ago, British women still did not have the vote and violent protests by the suffragettes were escalating. Were these women seen at the time as something akin to terrorists, or as activists legitimately fighting for a political cause?

 

Frustrated by the lack of reform at the start of the 20th Century, hundreds of suffragettes were jailed after taking part in protests.

 

Until 1912 the campaigning was largely within the law, mainly chaining themselves to railings and disturbing the peace. But activism grew to include planting bombs, smashing shop windows and acts of arson.

 

Targets were not just buildings, even artworks were mutilated - most notably Velazquez's famous Rokeby Venus, repeatedly slashed with a meat cleaver at the National Gallery in 1914.

Looks to me like they would have been classed as terrorists nowadays...

 

But if they weren't, then badlad's examples mean diddly squat too!

 

Can't have it both ways!

 

I never asked anyone to protest for me

That's OK..

 

Some of us do it for others as well as ourselves... :Winky:

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Once again we idiots know nothing in the light of sparks's wisdom

 

We don't read the papers or news to form an opinion, we don't understand what threats lie in wait for us.

Your pity of our ignorance is justified.

We are always glad for you to show us the true light.

 

How was Bethlehem the last time you visited your place of birth?

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Once again we idiots know nothing in the light of sparks's wisdom

 

We don't read the papers or news to form an opinion, we don't understand what threats lie in wait for us.

Your pity of our ignorance is justified.

We are always glad for you to show us the true light.

 

How was Bethlehem the last time you visited your place of birth?

 

lol :Smiler:

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Isn't it funny how the usual suspects spout their nonsense yet again ...

 

Rother and the Fonz...

 

Which one is the puppet, and which one the puppet master?...

 

Nothing is mentioned by either of you about the actual topic I note...

 

So come on then... Do either of you have any constructive comments to add to the issue instead of just spouting b*llshit yet again?

 

Of course you don't - because you don't have a clue as to what is happening around you!

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Isn't it funny how the usual suspects spout their nonsense yet again ...

 

Rother and the Fonz...

 

Which one is the puppet, and which one the puppet master?...

 

Nothing is mentioned by either of you about the actual topic I note...

 

So come on then... Do either of you have any constructive comments to add to the issue instead of just spouting b*llshit yet again?

 

Of course you don't - because you don't have a clue as to what is happening around you!

 

Full of abuse tonight....

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Nothing more to add?...again!

 

Unable to 'afford the luxury' of an opinion?

 

Unlike some people, I work for a living so I don't have the time to search the web for the answers or the time to leave long replies, all I know is that this week I have learned that I am a sheep and that sparks is always right! :Winky: virtually everyone of his posts are political and or argumentative, nothing to do with this forum really, hardly any mention of music, apps or pc related topics, this forum he is using as a vehicle for his own gains and the demons he seems to carry and preach to others on how terrible a government we have and how terrible a country we all live in.

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Unlike some people, I work for a living so I don't have the time to search the web for the answers or the time to leave long replies, all I know is that this week I have learned that I am a sheep and that sparks is always right! :Winky: virtually everyone of his posts are political and or argumentative, nothing to do with this forum really, hardly any mention of music, apps or pc related topics, this forum he is using as a vehicle for his own gains and the demons he seems to carry and preach to others on how terrible a government we have and how terrible a country we all live in.

Do you have time for an opinion?

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Unlike some people, I work for a living so I don't have the time to search the web for the answers or the time to leave long replies, all I know is that this week I have learned that I am a sheep and that sparks is always right! :Winky: virtually everyone of his posts are political and or argumentative, nothing to do with this forum really, hardly any mention of music, apps or pc related topics, this forum he is using as a vehicle for his own gains and the demons he seems to carry and preach to others on how terrible a government we have and how terrible a country we all live in.

 

:Thumbs_Up1: :Thumbs_Up1: :Thumbs_Up1:

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I must be one of the sheep too as I think most of these measures are down to the world that we all live in and the nutters within it. Religion is one of the biggest threats in my opinion.

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