sparks

The original topic was phones having ther data downloaded from people who have been arrested.

So that would be 'numbers' and 'texts' - something they could read just by looking in the phone.

Only this time, they take an electronic record.

That does not differ too much from what the police have always had to do -

make a record of the arrest and what was said and done, and any evidence - even in Robert Peels day.

 

You, Sparks always have to use any excuse to go off on a tangent to shout 'it's a police state'

I suspect you like to sprout your BS here because no one else in your life will listen.

 

Should I be arrested in the future and they take my mothers and the local chinky's telephone number from my phone

and record my texts saying 'see you in the pub at 8' then so be it.

 

If they arrest the local pusher and record his dealings with the criminal fraternity from his phone - once again, so be it.

 

But, and this is what you can never comprehend Sparks, we understand what you call function creep, we know the police get more powers by the week

we know that some are 'bad apples' we understand that we are not always told the truth or real reason behind political decisions and it concerns most of us.

 

What we don't need is a 'trotskyist' believing that he and he alone knows the real truth out there.

We see it, we read it, we understand. Paranoia renders you unable to make a rational arguement -

and that is why you recieve so much flak on here - not because we are ignorant

As ever you tie yourself up in knots Rother because you are indeed sometimes ignorant...

I am no more 'trotskyist' than you!..Do you actually understand what the word means, other than what you perceive from a wiki entry?

FYI I am a anarchist in the truest sense of the word - not what the government/media lead you to believe about an anarchist...!

Sadly you and many others have shown a complete inability to understand the difference because of one tiny detail...

I believe that everyone should be able to control their own life instead of bending down to 'authority' whatever they may decree - and that is ANY form of FORCED authority whatever name you may wish to give it!

I have no problem with criminals being investigated, but the line has to be drawn when innocent people are caught up in the same net - a concept that obviously fails to be grasped by some who already consider others not their equal for one reason or another!

What you and others don't understand is that it is not 'some bad apples' as you quaintly term it, it is the system behind that allows (and encourages) the 'bad apples' - a very big difference!

I have been involved in some protests that most would agree with and some that most wouldn't...At least I remain true to myself, and bother to get involved!

Unlike you, who claimed that you were censored here when you were not, I have been...I'm still awaiting a reply as to why!!

But then I'm sure you (and others) will think thats ok, without realising the consequences since you no longer have the right to say what you want!

Despite the contrary impression I've received a lot of help here, and hopefully helped a few out...

But for some, christmas has come early...!

And sometimes the right wing minded idiots win...

Hey ho, the last 12 years have been fun...

:Thumbs_Up1:

Religion is one of the biggest threats in my opinion.

Can't disagree with that...

And 'our' religious fanatics are just as bad as 'theirs'!

Ah, so now its the three unwise men....pmsl

Unlike some people, I work for a living so I don't have the time to search the web for the answers or the time to leave long replies, all I know is that this week I have learned that I am a sheep and that sparks is always right! :Winky: virtually everyone of his posts are political and or argumentative, nothing to do with this forum really, hardly any mention of music, apps or pc related topics, this forum he is using as a vehicle for his own gains and the demons he seems to carry and preach to others on how terrible a government we have and how terrible a country we all live in.

Do you have time for an opinion?

Full of abuse tonight....

Nothing more to add?...again!

Unable to 'afford the luxury' of an opinion?

Isn't it funny how the usual suspects spout their nonsense yet again ...

Rother and the Fonz...

Which one is the puppet, and which one the puppet master?...

Nothing is mentioned by either of you about the actual topic I note...

So come on then... Do either of you have any constructive comments to add to the issue instead of just spouting b*llshit yet again?

Of course you don't - because you don't have a clue as to what is happening around you!

as for Suffragettes I do not remember them ever being suicide bombers or terrorists of any sort, what are you on about? of course they should have the right to vote and they protested peacefully

Oh dear...

A quick history lesson required methinks!

Linky Linky

A century ago, British women still did not have the vote and violent protests by the suffragettes were escalating. Were these women seen at the time as something akin to terrorists, or as activists legitimately fighting for a political cause?

 

Frustrated by the lack of reform at the start of the 20th Century, hundreds of suffragettes were jailed after taking part in protests.

 

Until 1912 the campaigning was largely within the law, mainly chaining themselves to railings and disturbing the peace. But activism grew to include planting bombs, smashing shop windows and acts of arson.

 

Targets were not just buildings, even artworks were mutilated - most notably Velazquez's famous Rokeby Venus, repeatedly slashed with a meat cleaver at the National Gallery in 1914.

Looks to me like they would have been classed as terrorists nowadays...

But if they weren't, then badlad's examples mean diddly squat too!

Can't have it both ways!

I never asked anyone to protest for me

That's OK..

Some of us do it for others as well as ourselves... :Winky:

This is a World problem and not limited to the UK. They have World leaders at the G8 in the Us discussing measures against all sorts of crimes and terrorism etc right now (Bet you wish you could be there eh?)

 

Lets have a look a the news about terrorism just today so far what do we have....Mmm

 

The issue was about Police actions in this country, but Hey ho...

Maybe we should look at these events you list...

1.Streets in Banff evacuated as bomb squad called in

http://www.bbc.co.uk...etland-18123082

BBC Scotland understands it is not a terrorism related incident

2. Bomb explosion at school in Brindisi, Italy

http://www.bbc.co.uk...europe-18128170

Although no-one has said they planted the device, the city's mayor has blamed local mafia.

A man has been charged with making an explosive substance for an unlawful purpose

Again, no mention of terrorism...

4. Bogota residents on deadly bomb blast which killed two

http://www.bbc.co.uk...merica-18110181

Bogota Police Commander Gen Luis Eduardo Martinez blamed Colombia's largest rebel group, the Farc, for the attack.

Civil war issue...freedom fighters or guerillas?

So there you go...

4 out of 5 not terrorist actions, and the last is just a trial report of an event a couple of years ago...

C- for you I'm afraid Badlad.... :Winky:

I would suggest that you can't afford not to protest against things that will affect your life for the worse...

Of course some people are happy for others to do it for them, and some are just sheep!

And going by the last two posts it seems that the Government has done a pretty good mind job on some of those sheep!!

So am I correct in assuming that you two believe the suffragettes were terrorists, and that women should never have got the vote?

:Smiler:

I agree to a degree but unfortunately with all the terrorism and nutters in the world some of these measures are needed.

Hook , line and sinker!!

What has terrorism got to do with taking the mobile phone data off any CRIME suspect?

The reason I say that is the example of section 44 stops...

A specific terrorism measure, and 'necessary' you may say?

No terror arrests in 100,000 police counter-terror searches, figures show

More than 100,000 people were stopped and searched by police under counter-terrorism powers last year but none of them were arrested for terrorism-related offences, according to Home Office figures published today.

The statistics show that 504 people out of the 101,248 searches were arrested for any offence – an arrest rate of 0.5%, compared with an average 10% arrest rate for street searches under normal police powers.

And the result of that (and section 60 stops) was one of the contributory causes for the actions of some during the riots because they perceived (quite rightly)they had been picked upon!

So did that 'anti terrorism' measure keep people safe? How many died as a result of the riots?

the governments of this world have to make these unpopular and sometimes unfair decisions and it's always the innocent people it effects. The problem is some governments use it as a good excuse to add in a few extra's of their own. Trouble is if something goes wrong we automatically blame them or say why was this not done or the classic line is 'we all have to learn lessons so this never happens again' so as I say no easy answer to a lot of this but i do not believe it's a bad as some members suggest DAILY.

You are right that it's innocent people that it affects, but the governments don't actually have to do these things. What they do have to do is change their policies elsewhere! You might not have an answer, but I have a few ideas as to where it's gone wrong ( :Winky: ) and what has led us to this police state we are in...!!

You might not think it is that bad, but I'll promise you this...

If and when you become a victim of this, or a myriad of other draconian measures, you'll change your tune!

Do you ever campaign against anything?...Because that is what this measure is for - to find out about protests and particiants and then prevent them!...

And it's no coincidence that this (and a whole raft of other measures) have been introduced in Olympic year!

Because people think it's 'necessary' to 'keep us safe', but don't think of the consequences!

No one really wants to think they are living in a police state, but unfortunately by the time the majority wake up to the fact it's too late!!

ps:

Q. how many have died from terrorism in the UK in the last decade?...

A. 56

Q. how many have died on uk roads in the last decade

A. approx 28,000

If the government really wanted to 'keep people safe' statistically, they'd make the 'unpopular' decision to ban cars!

Unlike my 'sidekick', I believe we ARE living in a police state...

But as I have said before it is a 'civilised' one, so that people don't realise until they get caught up with the police - and then it dawns on them far too late!

How do you insult someone legally?

Personally I would have liked to insult the Queen on the day she is entertaining dictators, but was stopped from doing so... :Vault:

You do think we are idiots.

You asked the question...

In your case I just pointed out the obvious... :Fun:

What can't you see Rother? Things right in front of your nose apparently!

And as ever, you confuse 'Country' with those that 'rule' it!

I seem to recall a certain objectionable (but legal) political party's member list being publicised. Was that good?

What if a member of an equally objectionable (but legal) organisation was stopped and all their contacts stored forever, and innocent people referred back to at any time in the future just because they were on a phone's database? That smacks of a tactic the Stasi would be proud of to me, but maybe that's ok with you?

I could remind you that a certain group of people were rounded up on the say so of an IBM database, but then I'm sure you'll tell me 'it couldn't happen here' wouldn't you!

Fed and nurtured?...Exploited as far as possible would be the phrase I'd use!

As for 'keeping me safe', how come we are now the target of terrorists who didn't threaten us before our illegal wars? How come we are in danger of sliding into an abyss due to our governing system having failed to protect the interests of the vast majority of it's population?

And as for being able to say and do what I like, are you having a laugh?

You obviously haven't heard of section 5 of the public order act...!

Of course there will always be 'inequities', but do you wish to condone the silencing of those who point them out through ignorance of the actual situation?

Isn't it amazing how some people can't see that we are getting as bad as the places they compare us with...

We just do a more 'civilised' police state here in the UK, in the same way as we do more 'civilised' corruption... :Winky:

A playlist to show how much we hold her in our hearts...

10. Manic Street Preachers “Repeat (Stars And Stripes)”

“Repeat after me, f*ck queen and country.”

[video: http://www.youtube.c...?v=4nDAHV7hPFs]

9. Crass “Big A Little A”

A general f*ck you manifesto directed at authority, this one features a way entertaining fake Queen Elizabeth singing lyrics.

[video: http://www.youtube.c...?v=YIdcDL64KCE]

8. The Exploited “Royalty”

In which the Queen of England gets slandered in this punk song with

turns of phrase such as “dirty little b*tch” and “f*cking little cow.”

[video: http://www.youtube.c...?v=WVykH-mtus0]

7. Primal Scream “Insect Royalty”

“Let’s roll out the golden f*cking coaches and all our f*cking crowns when

there’s people starving. Disgusting. England must f*cking truly burn one

day.”

[video: http://www.youtube.c...?v=qrHDk2u3sHQ]

6. The Housemartins “Flag Day”

“It’s a waste of time if you know what

they mean/Try shaking a box in front of the queen/’cause her purse is

fat and bursting at the seams.”

[video: http://www.youtube.c...?v=3-pxGH4eyLQ]

5. Bow Wow Wow “Louis Quatorze”

English new-wavers tackle the contentious moments in royal history in

this number, like French monarch Louis XIV marrying/statutory raping

underaged Marie Antoinette.

Choice lyrics: “Oh I love it when he says so seriously with his gun in my back, “Honey, close your eyes and think of England.”

[video: http://www.youtube.c...?v=fUTUJZyxxPI]

4. Manic Street Preachers “Her Majesty’s Prisoners”

If it wasn’t clear by this point, The Manic Street Preachers probably hate the Royals more than any other band.

[video: http://www.youtube.c...?v=PEXBIz1N97A]

3. The Stone Roses “Elizabeth My Dear”

“Tear me apart and boil my bones/I’ll not rest ’til she’s lost her throne/My aim is true my message

is clear/It’s curtains for you, Elizabeth my dear.”

[video: http://www.youtube.c...?v=VJNcnDLWNis]

2. The Sex Pistols “God Save The Queen”

The Sex Pistols’ definitive assault on the monarch needs no further explanation.

[video:

1. The Smiths “The Queen Is Dead”

With anthems like this, it’s not surprising that Morrissey won’t be

tuning in to watch the festivities as he recently slammed the Royals as

“benefit scroungers” and christened the royal bride “Kate Muddleton.”

[video: http://www.youtube.c...?v=Wz5IFl7uCis]

And a bonus for all the people in the UK who get the day off work:

Pulp “Common People”

[video:

No one is 'innocent' in the UK police state, and hasn't been for some time...

Not only is the suspects data held here, but data on everyone you've contacted too...What about their 'innocence'?

And no doubt the c*nts will at some point plant evidence on phones, just as they plant evidence in other ways at present!

Or remove incriminating evidence of their own misdemeaners...!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/2012/mar/30/police-officer-recording-black-man

Greece on brink of collapse

Not only is their financial system in danger of failure, but is it the start of the removal of 'democracy'?

Raising tensions still further, Germany warned Greek voters that the wrong result in next month’s election will force their country out of the single currency.

The EU did it with Ireland before...just keep 'voting' until the 'right' result is obtained...Or like in the UK - deny any vote at all !

'Democracy' across the western world is under threat as people start to realise they have to stand up against the vested interests or face being forced into a third world existence...'Democracy' and capitalism don't sit very well together...Previously this was only evident in oppressed nations...Now it is our turn in the West!

This is one of those occasions that it is handy to have a bit of cash stashed away just in case, as the contagion could lead to the banking system being 'frozen'...It was within a few hours of happening over Northern Rock, and will happen sooner or later.

You have been warned...again!

Here's an idea then...

Why don't we sterilise (sp?) girls at birth and offer a reversal when a certain level of income is reached?

Of course, to give the proles a bit of hope, and keep them entertained a whole new range of TV shows could be aired....

'Who wants to be a mother'?..

'Britain's got Mothers'..

'Strictly come Mothering'..

And of course 'Big Mother'...

Then we could wheel out that old favourite, 'family fortunes'...Get over 200 and you get the car a baby!...

Do you reckon the Job Centre lot are as worried about these?

Fraud1

The RAF may be paying billions of pounds too much for its new, air-to-air refuelling Voyager aircraft, the BBC has discovered.

Contracts seen by Newsnight suggest the 14 planes could be purchased for £50m each instead of the £150m each paid as part of a £10bn leasing agreement.

Fraud2

Major UK-based firms cut secret tax deals with authorities in Luxembourg to avoid millions in corporation tax in Britain, the BBC's Panorama has found.

 

The programme obtained confidential tax agreements detailing plans to move profits off-shore to avoid what was a 28% corporate tax rate at the time.

Somehow those 30 families seem to pale into insignificance....

Doesn't bode well does it....

And I wouldn't be surprised if there are protests aimed at doing the same thing as it goes around the UK...

Mind you, it's not all doom and gloom. I hear many people and companies have already struck gold - in the newly designated 'laughing all the way to the bank' race!

Option 3 is an integral part of Option 1...

Hence my preference!

Before you ask i don't have the answer (wish i did)

All1

I do... :Smiler:

Option 1...

Let UK plc go bankrupt and see what happens after the ensuing chaos.

Option 2...

Abolish VAT and all but the basic benefits for those truly in need.

Bring in rent/mortgage control, and enforce the collection of taxes.

Two flat rates of tax (25% and 55%), and abolish Nat Ins.

Renege on all PFI contracts and forcefully renationalise all services without penalty - water, gas, electricity, railways etc. - and control prices.

Removing VAT (essentially a tax aimed at the poor) would stimulate the economy enough imo to make work viable, and create enough jobs to take up the shortfall in the benefits system.

But of course since I believe the current capitalist model to be fundamentally flawed, my anarchist head says Option 1.... :Winky:

Yeah, but that's still subsidising the companies that exploit people, and keeping people in poverty traps...

And if the indigenous population stop breeding guess what happens....immigration is encouraged to provide another source of cheap labour!

I think some people are a bit confused about our benefit system..

The level and scope of the payments were changed several decades ago for one reason alone - to subsidise businesses!

Pay has fallen below a 'living wage' in real terms for the majority of jobs in this country. Even those on average wages find it hard to exist without some form of 'help'...Benefits in effect move money from us to business entities who often make obscene profits.

Therefore before moaning about benefits being too high, maybe people should moan about wages being too low....or the cost of goods/services being too high!

Sure there is abuse of the system, but if there are only 30* families nationwide being targetted, then that's hardly on the scale of the 10's of thousands of tax avoiders/evaders who cost the country £130bn a year!

As for not having kids unless you can 'afford them', then I guess it'll soon be only the rich that would be allowed to f*ck!

* Its unwise to take at face value anything the Job Centre lot utter - don't forget they were sending people on slave labour schemes and lying that they wouldn't lose benefits!